Speaking at the Society of Edmonton Atheists
FYI, I have been invited to speak to the Society of Edmonton Atheists, though I am not sure if that makes me an honorary atheist for the evening. (But then, as my atheist friends love to say, I’m an atheist about every god but one. So maybe I am being invited to speak under the aegis of my firm belief in the non-existence of Zeus.)
Anyway here is the info as provided by the Society for anyone who may be in the Edmonton area:
Topic: “Can Atheists Be Trusted?”
Join us with guest speaker Randal Rauser as we discuss the prejudices that atheists face in our culture and our communities.
Time: Tuesday, June 7th, 2011: June Roundtable 7:00pm to 9:00pm in room 6-7
Place: Stanley A. Milner Library, downtown.
(Ask a security guard to unlock an elevator for you.)
Tags: atheism, prejudice, skepticism, Society of Edmonton Atheists
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toryninja says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 6:50am
Is that topic really relevant in Canada? I mean, I can understand if you were talking about prejudices that Christians have about atheists, or maybe prejudices atheists face in the United States, but do atheists really face any challenges in Canada on a whole? I mean challenges that are any different than anyone else? I just don’t see it.
I’m willing to admit that I may be ignorant, but in all my discussions with atheists in person from Canada I have never heard the complaint “I am so marginalized because I’m an atheist”. I follow the “Canadian Atheist” blog, and never to do complain about the prejudices they face for being atheists. They may complain about how religious people are prejudice against them, or how they feel religion is too involved in Canadian government, or how atheists are persectured in the States, but that’s very very different from Canadian culture as a whole having a prejudice against atheists.
I just don’t see it.
Jouras says:
Sunday, September 11, 2011 at 11:51am
Can atheists be trusted?
It depends on the atheist, because there is nothing in atheism per se to suggest that they should be.
After all, you could be a lying cheater like Loftus and still not behaving inconsistently with being an atheist.
Christopher Gardner says:
Sunday, September 11, 2011 at 7:38pm
People refer to atheists as if it is some kind of religion, I am particularly referring to adding “ism” to the word atheist. There is no such context to atheists. We are not a group of people that comprise an “ism” Therefore you can’t justify the question as to wether or not atheists can be trusted, atheists like all people can either be trusted or not. In particular when it comes to trust it is christians that have a way of dealing with dishonesty through confession and repentance. Why if christians are to be so trust worthy do they allow this loophole for believers? The fact is being trustworthy is something that most of us have to learn and demonstrate. I find it Ironic that most christians I talk to admit that they can not prove the existence of god but they refer to him as if with absolute certainty that he exist. The atheist finds no real evidence to believe and is honest about that. The christian without evidence claims there is a god. The issue of trustworthiness is better asked about those who make positive claims without evidence!
toryninja says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 6:52am
*persecuted in the States*
The Atheist Missionary says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 9:36am
toryninja, it’s not nearly as bad for atheists in Canada as it would be living in some parts of the US but we still face prejudice. Just a couple of examples:
http://www.atheistmissionary.com/2010/06/what-happens-if-you-write-atheist.html
http://www.atheistmissionary.com/2011/01/scarlett-letter-of-atheism.html
To many, the term “atheist” is synonymous with immorality and nihilism, although most who hold that view wouldn’t be able to tell you what nihilism means.
toryninja says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 9:53pm
I’m sorry, but I really don’t see how your blogs showed how atheists are prejudiced against in Canadian culture as a whole. You even mention how you ended up getting even more referrals after in one of them.
I honestly don’t think atheists are prejudiced at all in Canada. They experience people disagreeing with them no more or less than any other group in Canada.
Now atheists might get prejudice on them from religious people, but that goes without saying (just as atheists are often prejudiced against believers). But that is a whole lot different than saying Canadian culture is prejudice against atheists. And in places like Quebec, you probably can’t progress too far in society unless you are an atheist or at least a functional atheist.
So while I agree that religious people have prejudices against atheists (in Canada and elsewhere), and that in the US there are prejudices against atheists, I just really don’t see any prejudice against atheists in Canadian culture on a whole and that being an atheist in some places of Canada is actually a boon to one’s life and career.
randal says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 10:06pm
My short talk will be on a specific issue: how Christians misuse texts like Psalm 14:1 and Romans 1 against atheists. There is nothing like a bit of mea culpa to get the lines of dialogue opened up.
toryninja says:
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at 12:04am
See, that is an entirely defensible thesis. And I agree a mea culpa can open excellent dialogue, especially when the mea culpa is warranted. But the way the atheist group is advertising your talk I think assumes a false view of how atheists are viewed in Canada. But maybe I am reading too much into the advertisement because I am so use to American atheists complaining about prejudice using the same wording as that advertisement.
randal says:
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at 12:27am
I think the description of the talk was deliberately written broadly to allow me more space to develop my thesis.
Richard Robinson says:
Monday, June 6, 2011 at 11:20pm
That was precisely the intent, Randal. This is meant to spur a discussion.
If you’re going to compare the US and Canada, it’s certainly the case that in practice Canadian atheists experience far less discrimination than their American counter-parts. It’s worth noting, however, that US law is in many respects far more secular than Canadian law. Consider that while the US Constitution never makes mention of a specific god, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms acknowledges the supremacy of God in its first paragraph.
There are also many subtle indications of prejudice that I think go unnoticed. For example, in recent discussions surrounding the provision of non-religious public education in Morinville, a number people said things to the effect of “I believe it is important that children learn morals and values in school” as though this could not be taught without reference to God.
Canadians are not very overt about religion, and I love this country for that, but it’s still there, and it affects our relationships.
The Atheist Missionary says:
Tuesday, May 31, 2011 at 2:51am
Ninja wrote: I just really don’t see any prejudice against atheists in Canadian culture on a whole and that being an atheist in some places of Canada is actually a boon to one’s life and career.
You’re probably right.
Daniel says:
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 at 12:17am
“I honestly don’t think atheists are prejudiced at all in Canada”
How do you explain that for the first time in any city worldwide CFI’s atheist billboards have been vandalized and then stolen off buses? http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110422/bc_atheist_bus_ads_110422/20110423?hub=BritishColumbia
Beetle says:
Monday, May 30, 2011 at 9:50am
Good for you Randall! If more Christians were as open minded as you, I believe there would be fewer people who self-identify as atheists.
Daniel says:
Monday, June 6, 2011 at 10:21pm
Hi, Daniel here with the Society of Edmonton Atheists. If you are a theist please do come out tommorow night. It will be an interesting and worthwhile discussion. You can find more info here -> http://www.edmontonatheists.ca/2011/05/can-atheists-be-trusted-society-of-edmonton-atheists-monthly-roundtable-june-7/
@toryninja I agree that atheists in Canada probably don’t face the same prejudice in Canada as the US. But it is still very real here. Take for example of atheist billboards gone missing in Kelowna. Tell me, how many openly atheist politics or judges do we have in Canada? We have publically-funded Catholic schools. God in our anthem and constitution. From my experience, probably the worst persecution comes at a more personal/private level, i.e., from family and friends who think you are immoral or gone astray and will therefore suffer severe consequences.
randal says:
Tuesday, June 7, 2011 at 5:05pm
“From my experience, probably the worst persecution comes at a more personal/private level, i.e., from family and friends who think you are immoral or gone astray….”
Sure, but that’s hardly unique. A kid with atheist parents who converts to Christianity would face the same problem. So would the life time liberal who converts to conservative politics. And imagine the fall out if a founding member of Greenpeace became a supporter of nuclear power. (Actually one did, and you can ask him about social ostracization and marginalization.)
Daniel says:
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 at 12:14am
I call total B.S. on this randal.
There are MANY documented cases of Christian parents kicking their free-thinking kids out on the streets and disinheriting them (see Damon Fowler). I’m not saying it never has happened or couldn’t — but I’ve never heard of a single case of a child who comes to religion being rejected by atheist parents. In fact, I hear just the opposite, that most atheist parents want their children to think for themselves about religion; and if they so choose to take on beliefs without evidence (which rarely seems to happen) the parents aren’t necessarily thrilled but they certainly aren’t kicking them on the streets, giving away their college fund, and disenfranchising them from the family!
Beliefs inform your actions. Many Christian parents really believe that you can’t be good without an imaginary sky-daddy. They see their child as having gone astray, knocking on the gates of hell, maybe suffering from demonic tendencies, etc. It is not surprising they would take drastic measures given the non-evidenced based beliefs of Christianity.
beetle says:
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 at 5:09pm
Hope to see a follow-up post about your talk!
Chris says:
Sunday, July 31, 2011 at 4:32am
I am a husband and father of six children for the past 26 years. When my oldest children found out that I no longer believe I faced immediate rejection, when my oldest son and wife come for a visit they do not acknowledge or greet me and avoid eye contact. I some times look in the mirror to see if there is something hanging from my nose but all I see is the face of a lonely sad dad. I no longer have freedom to think out loud or speak regarding reason and evidence. I keep my conversations light with references to things I am learning about biology and physics. My wife and children talk openly about their God and their experiences to each other in my presence but do not allow me to contribute my thoughts or expressions of reason without a resounding verbal reprimand which amounts to “shut up dad we don’t care what you think.” either my delivery is wrong or wrongly timed or there may be an overall lack of maturity in both myself and them. I have learned not to challenge them as it only makes the relationships more distant. My house is impregnated with
christian books and magazines and christian music which makes me almost turn inside out with repulse. It is difficult to know that I have crossed over to a side that my loved ones can never respect or appreciate. Their faith requires them to forsake me for christ and they have, Their church supports them in this.
I am wondering if I have to make the choice to forsake them for my own sake as I clearly lack and abhor faith and religion? the more I hear them talk about their sick god the more I am repulsed,but sicker still is the memories I have of me when I was like them. I don’t want to sound as though I am full of self pity but there are times I want to scream. Ok maybe this isn’t the place to say all of this maybe I am just feeling down right now.
OUCH!
randal says:
Sunday, July 31, 2011 at 3:02pm
I’m sorry to hear that. Maybe your family should read my book You’re not as Crazy as I Think. Sorry for the shameless plugging (though if I shall not engage in shameless plugging in my blog then where?), but I think it might be helpful. The book focuses on how people tend to divide those who disagree with them on fundamental issues into two groups: stupid or wicked. It focuses on how Christians in particular do this to different groups, including atheists (see the final chapter, “Not all Atheists are fools”). It sounds like your family as a lack of categories in which they can slot your skepticism so they’re left with the uncomfortable conclusion of “sinful rebellion” and not sure where to go from there.
I shall not soon forget this line: “I some times look in the mirror to see if there is something hanging from my nose but all I see is the face of a lonely sad dad.” Thanks for sharing.
Daniel Mallett says:
Sunday, July 31, 2011 at 5:34pm
Chris, I echo Randal’s sympathies. It breaks my heart to hear stories like this. Sadly, your story confirms Christopher Hitchen’s thesis that religion poisons everything. As I alluded to in a previous post, the general prejudice towards atheists in society often plays out most painfully at the familial level.
Randal’s book may be an excellent resource. But from my experience, I can’t emphasize enough the importance of living a healthy happy ethical life as a freethinkiner. Most believers do not arrive to their faith by intellectual arguments, and thus will not be convinced to leave by intellectual arguments. But if they see and know you being good without god it will help contradict their prejudice.
In my mind, people are more important than dogma. Some of my closest friends and family are religionists. We find ways to get along.
Another couple of resources I’d recommend are the Society of Edmonton Atheists (if you are in Edmonton) or joining a local free-thinkiners group whereever you live. There is also Recovering Religionists (http://recoveringreligionists.com/) that has great resources, especially their podcast Living After Faith…
all the best,
Daniel.